Wednesday, June 11, 2008

Can someone explain this?

This was a comment about ANGEL:AFTER THE FALL # 8:


buffy+angel4ever said...

Can anyone say cop out. What is it with Buffyverse writers not wanting to tarnish characters yet having Buffy treat Angel like crap in season five. The damage was already done, why not give her one more so called reason to hate Angel?

Good book, but Gunn was such a cop out.


Wyndam said...

I sounds to me like they were EXPECTING (as in, if anything happened that they weren't expecting, they were going to be against it 100% right of the bat) Gunn's sire to be someone else (my guess is Harmony), and they figure that making Gunn's sire someone else was a cop out.

I loved the story, but I guess some people were completely prepared for it to go another way (and therefore unopen to anything different), and got upset.

That's my guess, so I could be completely off the mark.

Mat said...

I don't think there's any sense at all to that post. Which brings me to the point that you can't stop writing Angel comics, Mr. Lynch. You and Whedon need to make these Angel comics a regular thing. They're selling like hotcakes (assuming hotcakes sell well) and Angel fans everywhere are loving this book. It can't end!

OK, so that was a horrible segue from the original topic, but you need to know--Angel needs to continue to be a part of our lives after the AtF storyline ends!

korkster said...

My guess is that he or she is nuts. Okay, maybe got their facts wrong? I'm still scratching my head with the whole Buffy/Angel-diss comment. Season 5... of Buffy? Uh, no, she was with Riley and then she died. Season 5... of Angel? Well, he WAS working for an evil corporation... one can see how that can be tricky, but an actual "diss" ("dis", "disss", whatever)? I think not.

Regarding Gunn, I think KingofCreitins on WHEDONesque said it perfectly (which we have questions for you on, BTW). I will give my own opinion and not steal from others when my book arrives (in a week, but then you won't care, so "eh"). From what I've seen so far in the series, I LOVE!

In fact, I was getting all reminiscy when I was organizing my 'verse collection last night. Such pretty pages, with sweet words. You, sir, have caused me to buy a HARD COVER of a media that my co-workers would laugh at (and spat about). Thank you. I'm truly blessed this year. :)

Fenderlove said...

I agree with Wyndam in that this person expected Angel to be Gunn's sire. It sounds to me that this person could possibly be harboring some resentment that their ship of choice *points to her/his username* wasn't validated by the end of both television shows. By her/his wording, it sounds like s/he believes that since Angel never got together with Buffy by S5's end, that the character's integrity should just disintegrate and turn into something wholly unlikable. I'm not a shipper (unless you count Spangel- I'm still waiting on the Spike/Angel hook-up cover, Mr. Lynch!) so I'm not really sure if I completely understand what they were trying to get across.

PatShand said...

I've explained many things before. Some of those things borderline difficult. But this is in a wholllllle 'nother level.

I was reading this Batman comic written by Brian K. Vaughan where the Mad Hatter made a doctor temporarily transform into a crazy beast, because the doctor could only understand an insane person if they lost their sanity.

So maybe it's a *good* thing that none of us understand that post.


Chris G. said...

Hey Lynch, Good issue. I wouldn't say it was a cop out about Gunn. In fact, I loved how you connected him losing his eye to that one cover of him in the eye patch. I didn't even read that other book and still really dug how you tied it into ATF canon.

Anyway, can't wait to see what happens next. Is there more "First Night" ahead? Or are you going back to the present next issue??

Brian Lynch said...

FIRST NIGHT is over!

Damon Hunt said...

Gday Brian, I haven't read issue 8 yet because I live in a small country town in Western Australia, but I travel to the city monthly just so I can pick up your master peice. The only thing I want to say is the comment that we are all replying to is full of crap and I would like to state a fact that it was the original writers of Angel that wanted to see Gunn turned into a vampire. It's not a cop out it's a bloody good idea and I'm very much looking forward to reading it a couple of my friends and I have are theories where this series will end but truth be told i'm enjoying the journey too much to think about that. Your a fantastic writer and when the dust clears and after the fall is concluded I would only want to see you writing the monthly Angel comic series because I plus many people down under think u've nailed it man. So take care and keep writing.
BTW I was the one who originally said Angel wasn't a vampire and you lied lol, but I get why you did it. (MASSIVE SPOILER)

GeekBoy said...

I'll probably get grief for what I'm about to say, so let me preface by saying that Brian, I love your work, and in particular, I've loved "After the Fall". And on a page by page basis, I enjoyed reading "First Night" as much as I enjoy reading most things you write. But ...

I have to admit, having read all three issues twice now -- once when each first came out and again all in a row last night -- I was left feeling a bit dissatisfied. There's a lot of great info and dialogue in there, but the isolated character structure made the storytelling so choppy that I was constantly pulled "out of the moment". (I also wasn't a big fan of all the art.)

One of the things I like about your writing, which you share with Joss, is your ability to set up a great rhythm over a series of 20 or so pages. And this format left no room for that. So "First Night" didn't quite live up to my expectations, and I'll be glad to have the regular storyline back next issue.

Anyway, that's just me!

Oh, and I have no idea what that commenter was trying to say. I wasn't 100% satisfied by the story of Gunn's turning, but I'm expecting to like it better retroactively once we learn more about the group that vampire is a part of. Definitely not a "cop out" though.

Chris said...

I'm not sure what the person is referring to in regards to Gunn.

Do they mean that Gunn was vamped?

That was part of the original plans that Joss had for season 6 of Angel or the DVD movies.The vamp Gunn thing is just one of those ideas to carry over to After The Fall.

Or do they mean the cop out being who sired Gunn?

A lot of people expected it to be Harmony,Dru,Angel,Spike or someone else we know.It's sort of the same thing as some fans being convinced the mystery woman in Connor's story was Cordelia and caught off guard or dissapointed when it was revealed to be Kate.

Brian Lynch gave us a good curve ball by having the vamp who sired Gunn be someone we've never seen before.Plus it puts more emphasis on the reasons he was turned instead of who actually did the turning.

As for this person's Buffy comments.I'm one the fans who still think that the stuff in season 5 in the episodes Damage and Shells came from Giles more than Buffy.Part of that is due to comments Drew Goddard made to a friend at some conventions and part of that is based off of stuff that has been revealed in season 8 so far.

This is only my speculation though and unless it actually gets addressed in a comic,we'll not know either way.

For dramatic reasons I can understand why they needed Angel to believe that stuff in season 5 even if it's revealed down the line not to be true or not true from Buffy's POV.

All that said,everybody has an opinion and a right to them so if buffy+angel4ever is unhappy with something or didn't like the way a storyline was handled,then that is fine.After seeing what happened in fandom the other day,that's something to always remember.

Mark said...

I hope to see some Angel & Spike gay relationship..serious stuff, not funny..Vampires are all bisexual and they should have some hot same sex (male) stories..those could be told in the past or the present. You owe us that!

Thanks for the blog and comments that can be written here.

GeekBoy said...

Wait, vampires are all bisexual? Since when???

Now slayers on the other hand ...

Speaking of which, Brian, is there any chance that IDW and Dark Horse will ever team up to do a limited cross-over event? (And would you tell us if there was?) It seems like if Marvel & DC can do it sometimes, why not the indy labels too?

PatShand said...

In other mythologies, all vampires are bisexual. I believe Anne Rice does that. Not sure.

But I know they aren't in the Buffyverse.

jennifer bishop said...

I think it means that they're a jerk and you should just ignore them.

Anonymous said...

i gotta say that it WAS a letdown. I remember finishing the issue thinking, "Wow, Brian Lynch really shouldn't have hyped Gunn's sire so much because everyone is going to be let down" I'm not saying you should burn in the fiery pits of hell, but I'm just saying there's been a lot of hyper surrounding these last issues that haven't quite followed through. The "citizen" story was seriously lacking and I was expecting a "touching" story but it really was rather annoying. Anyway, I did enjoy the issue, but I must agree that the First Night issues didn't quite work out too well. Don't hate me! :0

Brian Lynch said...

When did I hype Gunn's sire? I actively said, it's not about who sired him.

SaveALemming said...

Man! I was hoping it would be either Angel, Spike, Harmony, Dru, or Darla (eventhough she's dead) since as far as some folk are concerned there are only FIVE VAMPIRES in the series. I was actually expecting it to be Senior Partners thing: Turn Wesley into ghost dork, Angel human, and Gunn a vampire- Makes sense to me.

Nolan said...


You didn't think the Citizen's story was touching? Huh. Ok. I suppose I'm one of the few who actually really enjoyed that part, it was completely different from what I would have expected ("Oh no, we're in Hell we're all going to die! Where's my baby?!"), and I think walked that balance that the Whedon shows walk very well, with the drama and comedy/weirdness interwining and complimenting eachother.

I'll also comment here (since I forgot to mention this at whedonesque) that I think you did a great job at capturing Gunn's voice for his story, Brian. I usually have a hard time hearing the character's voices (usually, because I'm reading so quickly), but Gunn's really came through.

Deborah said...

I don't understand that comment at all. I think maybe the person either wanted Angel or Spike to have sired Gunn, or possibly is cross that Gunn is cross with Angel that he got vamped. Or something.

Sorry. That's all I got.

I didn't feel cheated, by the way, because I knew that neither Angel nor Spike would ever do such a thing.

8 was my favourite First Night issue.

Deborah said...

Meant to say also that we don't whether or not all Buffyverse vampires are bisexual, because they've never said either way.

However, it's hinted at a couple of times, both with Darla and Dru and with Angel and Spike, so why not?

Mark said...

About the vampires being bisexual..they sometimes do bite people of the same sex and it is a very sexual act.

It would be great to see Angel and Spike naked in bed together, at least one time.

Emmie said...

After multiple readings of that post, sounds to me like B/A shipper dissatisfaction with the storyline of Buffy not "trusting" Angel in episode 5.11 Damage. And that he's equating this disservice to the characters to how Gunn was turned.

And I don't remember you hyping up who turned Gunn, Brian. I'm pretty sure we did that all on our own - something we fans keep doing with too much time to speculate between issues. I'm glad it wasn't Angel, Spike, Harmony or Dru who sired Gunn. None of the scenarios makes sense to me.

I really enjoyed Gunn's story in First Night - his character, voice, emotions and actions were spot-on for me. Now that we're heading back to the present storyline, I'm beginning to better appreciate the break. It occurs to me that First Night was placed after issue 5 to ask of the characters "How did we get to this moment?" in the midst of the insanity of the epic, hellish battle. It's a bit more torturous to have a cliffhanger and then switch to flashback storyteller mode in the comic medium where the cliffhanger lasts for over 3 months.

One question: any hope for another audioblog sometime soon? :)

buffy+angel4ever said...

Ok, sorry if I was unclear about that post. I was referring to Angel Season Five. What I meant by cop out was not that I was expecting Angel necessarily to be Gunn's sire, but that it seemed rather odd to have random vampires sire him, especially after all the build up. It seemed like it was done to prevent Spike or Angel's characters being tarnished. I actually never even considered Harmony as a potential sire, mostly because I forgot about her. I WAS expecting Gunn's sire to be someone else, just not anyone specific, rather, someone know to the Buffyverse by televised means.

I haven't read through all the comments, but I just want to clarify my post.

I LOVE these comics, I had read a grand total of 2 comics in my lifetime before ATF. I just had problems with that single plot point.

ryan said...

Who cares that Gunn's sire is not famous, the story was still great. The reveals of the alley battle was a definite highlight! I enjoyed First Night.

Kate's story is still my personal favourite, followed closely by Gunn's and Gwen's.

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